Travelling Back in Time
I've signed quite a few contracts in my time, but never one with a clause like this:
- Contractor will be provided with a scooter.
Mind you, it's not often that the contract covers a week in Bermuda, which is where I will be for the next seven days.
As with all the work I do it's thanks to a codestore reader. In this case a Bermuda resident and British expat called Tom Quinn. Tom recommended me to an IT Services company out there who were in immediate need of a Notes resource. Notice I say Notes, as opposed to Domino.
The Codestore/Rockall combination brings me enough work to keep me busy and, most importantly, to survive. However, it's not quite at the point where I can afford to turn work away. Although I would normally turn away Notes client work this in Bermuda and I found it impossible to say no, for the obvious reasons. There's also the chance of repeat work, so I found it impossible to refuse.
The trouble is I've not worked with the Notes client for about 6 years! As a Domino/web developer returning to Notes development will I have a problem? Obviously I have the groundings there - Domino is Notes to a degree. It's not like I will be learning Notes and its odd ways from afresh. I know what Forms, Fields and Views are. It's just that I now think in terms of WebQueryOpen agents and HTML/CSS. I can't remember the last time my code included a NotesUIWorkspace object.
What resources will help me out? I have some old databases I worked on years ago as reference. I also have the templates and the help files. Do you think I'll manage or will I be making a return to the forum under a pseudonym.
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So do we look in the forums for an apparent newbie posting questions, with a name somewhat like Bermuda_Beach_Bum????
Jake, we all here would be too glad to help you out. Maybe, its payback time for all the goodies that you have provided us all these years :-)
I'm guessing you were asking a serious question, so here's a serious answer. I'm sure that further obligitory beach jokes will be made in subsequent comments.
I don't think you'll have a problem, but you'll want to do a bit of searching beforehand. All your nicely prepared $$Viewtemplates and CSS won't help you here young Padawan. If you have to make everything look/feel like a company standard then you'll be fine, but if you have to start from scratch you might find it a painful task to make some nice looking Notes forms / framesets (Say it Jake, go on, "Frameset" - bet you haven't said that in a while!). There are some nice examples out there from people who have worked hard to make Notes databases look pretty nice.. so find some and steal them.. other than that, having a smart client actually makes a lot of development chores kind of easy..
I think the best thing to bear in mind, is before your gut reaction responds to feature requests with "It can't be done with Domino!", to stop and think, because it probably can be done with Notes ;)
(Unless the client is using R5 of course - I still have one of those and it makes me stab myself with a pencil everytime they log a work request)
Isn't Tom Quinn from the bbc Spooks series.
I hope for your sake that it's this Scooter:
{Link}
And not this one:
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:-)
Hi Jake,
Don't forget to take into account the replication topology...For example running an agent on 100,000 documents may create some serious replication issues (I saw it done once back in the days of 4.6 and 28.8k modems)..
I think you may actually enjoy it..No cross-browser compatibility, just a little red boxes every now and then, and some frustrations with the limits of what a notes client can do..
P.S Anyone going to Lotus Developer 2005 in LA?
Hi jake,
I am a regular reader of Codestore.I had always appreciated the knowledge and help you have given to others.I am sure you will be able tto do great in notes client too...Even after working for 2 years in Web, i shifted to cleint it took a bit time to settle down but i am enjoying it...
Jake relax!
The Notes client is not that bad. Have a look at all the nice picture frames Ben recently showcased. I've done a fair bit of Notes client software recently and NO NotesUIobject crossed my code. You typically encounter that species in rather bad code. What is really nice (given it is R6): embedded views with embedded editors, tabbed tables, basic JavaScript.
Shouldn't be a problem... anyway you got a pledge for help already and I would second that!
:-) stw
I would actually suggest that you skip most of the Notes UI classes. The better code I see seems to use those at the last possible moment, thus allowing backend development much closer to what is need on the web. Of course, we are all here to help, but I think you'll be OK.
Ha ha ...
I'm stuck in Notes client purgatory for the moment. Welcome to my hell!
Second Ben's input. Good thing is that with a secure client, the validation model gets alot easier. But don't get me started on Notes tables........
Jake,
Look me up when you get to Bermuda. I emailed you about 2 weeks ago ( to your Rockall address ) inquiring about some Domino work in Bermuda, but you never responded. I probably know who worked on the applications you will be working on. Drop me a line, I will take you for a drink, and ensure you don't crash the scooter.
Jake,
6 years is a long time to be away from any IDE, but if back then you already had an R5 client, there shouldn't be a problem.
Jeff, ITA that Notes tables are a PITA.
'Anyone going to Lotus Developer 2005'
Yes, but not in LA, I'm registered for Amsterdam.
I just want to know what Karen thinks about this latest sojourn?
Thanks guys. I've relaxed a little now.
Jason. You emailed me about work in Bermuda and I ignored you? Never! Me thinks tech-problems got in our way. Email can rarely be relied on as a means of correspondence these days... I actually have a blog about that in my head.
David. Let's just say it took some time for me to convince her she should be excited about the fact I'm doing well and it's all working towards her one day giving up work. That last bit helped.
Jake,
I doubt you'll have any issue going back to developing for the Notes client. I had to do make a similar transition a year or so ago and began finding the task a lot less stressful than developing for the web (though sometimes less challenging isn't as rewarding).
Have fun in Bermuda! ahem, I mean work hard in Bermuda!
I like Notes tables myself. So there.
Ben,
but you have the advantage of understanding their inner workings! Us mere mortals have to work within the limitations that the UI provides and try to understand why the poxy things behave the way they do without that knowledge!
Tony
Look on the upside (I mean, besides the tropical destination...), there are tons of really dangerous, RBOD prone OLE and COM packages you can work with through the client you don't often get to fudge with on the web. Sounds like maybe an exciting opportunity to dust off some brain cells that maybe have been busy doing other things.
"If you arn't making the [notes] client crash, you aren't doing anything really exciting yet." - me
Look on the upside (I mean, besides the tropical destination...), there are tons of really dangerous, RBOD prone OLE and COM packages you can work with through the client you don't often get to fudge with on the web. Sounds like maybe an exciting opportunity to dust off some brain cells that maybe have been busy doing other things.
"If you arn't making the [notes] client crash, you aren't doing anything really exciting yet." - me
I don't get the problems from you guys bemoaning the client...whilst I accept the web front end is the future of UI (until the next big thing!) and some things can be done in the browser that can't in the client, I still think client development in Notes is the fastest development environment anywhere.
I develop in both, and I guarantee I could get a fully working db for the client in *far* less time than the web - maybe not as pretty - but working.
Is it just me?
Tim, you are totally right. I really like the Notes client which is an excellent tool for most of the tasks. Every time when I have to develop for the web or with Access or Eclipse or other IDEs I need much more time for often very simple things. Only using Java in the Notes client is not a good thing. There Eclipse will serve much better.
But did anyone ever used layers? I played around with them some times but I didn't find any use for it until now.
I made the transition to Notes client development about ten months ago. At first I too thought "yech!" but after "discovering" layers I must say my opinion has changed. My first task was to update a Notes front office system - part of which was giving the forms a makeover. The best moment was when a user saw my new forms for the first time and said, "Wow, it looks really modern. I didn't think Notes databases could look so good."
I was in the same position as you a few months ago... (re)learning Notes client development after many years Domino web dev. It was fun and several things are much easier.
It reminded me how much of Designer web stuff is such an add-on. Development is much more fluid for Notes. Things just work better, because you are using a tool that was built for client development.
BTW, some CSS can be used in Notes client with success.